I love 2 Nephi 25:23- 'That it is by Grace that we are saved'- such a great lesson for this week! Confusing words. But a certain amount of works (i.e., the best we have to offer) are necessary to trigger God’s grace and mercy. Then I gave him a hint. Thoughts? Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pp. He cites 2 Nephi 25:23 as support for his assessment, but also 1 Nephi 13:40, in which the angel who asks Nephi, “Knowest thou the condescension of God?” (1 Nephi 11:16), repudiates the notion of a shared responsibility for salvation. ☼ 2 Nephi 25:23: For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. The use of 2 Nephi 25:23 as raw material for theological reflection about the relationship between grace and works creates no end of trouble for Mormons, although many of us seem unaware of the difficulties. We tend to focus on the last phrase “after all we can do” as the important part of this verse. 2 Nephi 23:19-23 Babylon . Math. Apostle Boyd K. Packer agreed with “after” as referencing a preposition of time, saying, “Even that grace of God promised in the scriptures comes only ‘after all we can do’” (“The Brilliant Morning of Forgiveness,” Ensign, November 1995 (Conference Edition), p. 19). . He is right, being saved from sin requires two things, accepting Christ (faith) and repenting of one’s sins. @Deadworm, I thank you for your words and presence on this forum. For the other five definitions, let’s see how that might work for 2 Nephi 25:23: No example can be found in the 1828 dictionary to support the idea that “after” could mean “apart from all we can do,” “all we can do notwithstanding,” “regardless of all we can do,” or “in spite of all we can do.” Thus, it is highly unlikely that any reader in Smith’s day could have understood this verse to mean anything other than a person is saved by grace after (“later in time”) all they can do. 2 Nephi 2. Brackets in original). Despite being so rich, they are not very kind to people. Emphasis mine). Based on what Burton said, the phrase “after all we can do” as described in 2 Nephi 25:23 is a direct reference to “individual salvation,” also known as exaltation, eternal life, and godhood. If the verse said “…we are saved by grace EVEN AFTER all we can do,” we’d have something to talk about. Dieter F. Uchtdorf said: I wonder if sometimes we misinterpret the phrase “after all we can do.” We must understand that “after” does not equal “because.” 25:232 Nephi 25:23 would be that we are ultimately saved by grace apart from whatever we manage to do. I was unaware that the church newsroom had doctrinal tidbits in there (thanks CV75 for pointing in that direction) and as I was browsing I came upon the entry for Grace. (2 Nephi 25:23, 26) There is no other way to be saved than through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. 366-367). Ellipsis in original). Doesn’t the book of James say that “faith without works is dead”? Callister’s explanation correlates with the traditional interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23, which is works are definitely needed and salvation does not come by grace alone. In my opinion, Verse 23 is best read in light of the entire chapter rather than quoted by itself in isolation. Posts Tagged ‘2 Nephi 25:23 vs. Ephesians 2:8-9’ Mormon Dilemma 154. Tag: 2 Nephi 25:23 After “all” the Bishop Could Do, it Wasn’t Enough. Why did most not look at the Brass serpent that would save them and what did the Brass serpent represent? Its walls were, for height and width, one of the wonders of the world. In my opinion, Verse 23 is best read in light of the entire chapter rather than quoted by itself in isolation. In traditional Mormonism, grace is provided to all humanity because of obedience accomplished in Mormonism’s preexistence (i.e., all human chose Jesus rather than Lucifer to be the savior of the world). 26. Perhaps he means “preposition of contrast/concession,” which includes words like “in spite of” and “despite.” An example of a preposition of separation would be “from” or “off.” I don’t think that’s what he really means. (2 Nephi 25:23–24, 26, 29) This sure knowledge of Christ, had by the Lehites, was tied to the bedrock of the personal testimonies of at least four prophets who had actually seen the Savior. “The simple essence of all you need to know about the Atonement is to be found in the teachings of the great prophet Nephi when he said, ‘We labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). “When you think about it, there is so much promised in the gospel for so little required on our part. 2 Nephi 31:17-21. Note: The following was originally printed in the November/December 2018 edition of Mormonism Researched. In other words, each must do all he can to save himself form sin; then he may lay claim to the blessings of redemption by the Holy One of Israel, that all mankind may be saved by obedience to the law and ordinances of the gospel. Baptism in the name of Christ. The name Jacob is explained as "supplanter" in the King James Bible of Genesis 27:36 (compare Genesis 25:23-26), but could just as easily be read "successor" or "replacement," since Jacob replaced Esau as firstborn and received the birthright and the blessing (see Genesis 25:29-34; 27:22-40). Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. In the Old and New Testaments most of the people of Israel failed to understand and properly observe the law of Moses, which had been given to help them learn about Christ and come unto Him. Adam Fell: To walk after the flesh; to live after the flesh. What happens if the Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with man? It denotes logical separateness rather than temporal sequence. According to the English dictionary contemporary with Joseph Smith and the production of the Book of Mormon, the meaning of “after” as a preposition has the following meanings: After I have arisen, I will go before you into Galilee. Deuteronomy 6:14. 1. Nephi tries to convince people to believe in God and be saved by his grace. The Lord will not again forsake his people. You must keep the laws and ordinances of Christ. At first glance this passage seems to agree with 2 Nephi 25:23, but one of the basic principles of biblical hermeneutics (the interpretation of scripture) is that scripture within the Bible (and in LDS theology and scriptures, if it is true) cannot contradict itself. 2 Nephi 23:19-23 Babylon . Some of the ways they try to explain away its clear message can only be described as bizarre. My intention is to provide a three-pronged approach to interpreting the passage. (2 Nephi 25:23–24, 26, 29) This sure knowledge of Christ, had by the Lehites, was tied to the bedrock of the personal testimonies of at least four prophets who had actually seen the Savior. In a later general conference talk, Lee also said, “Truly we are redeemed by the atoning blood of the Savior of the world, but only after each has done all he can to work out his own salvation” (Conference Reports, October 1970, p. 116). Except for the atoning power, the redeeming power, of the Master, redeeming the world from the Fall, bringing us back into relationship with one of the Godhead, the Holy Ghost—were it not for His sacrifice for us, none of us would be worthy to enter in His presence, except we were bathed in His blood through repentance of all our sins and our faithfulness to the end (see 3 Nephi 27:19). Esau was unfit to serve as firstborn. In that distinction the beauty and glory of the Atonement, the balanced claims of justice and mercy shine forth as no where else, even in holy writ, — much less in the uninspired writings of men. 25:23 at the end. The B of M teaches ‘For we labor diligently to write to persuade our children, and also our brethren to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace we are saved after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). According to; as, consider a thing after its intrinsic value. For example, the ordinance of baptism is given us for the remission of sins, for entrance into the kingdom–a new birth; the gift of the Holy Ghost gives us the right to companionship with one of the Godhead; administration to the sick qualified the individual with faith for a special blessing; by paying our tithing, the windows of heaven may be opened unto us; by fasting and by praying our fast offerings, we are told that then we might call on the Lord and He will hear our cry and our call; celestial marriage promises us that family life will exist beyond the grave. for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). Ellipsis in original). Regardless of the opinion given by Robinson, there are two important reasons why “after all we can do” should be understood as a preposition of time. And what is "all that we can do?" (2 Nephi 26:11) 5. But in order for these supreme blessings to be effective in our lives, we should first do our part, ‘for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ Let us with faith, enthusiasm, dedication, responsibility, and love do all that is within our reach, and we will be doing all that is possible to achieve the impossible—that is, to achieve what for the human mind is impossible but with the divine intervention of our loving Father and the infinite sacrifice brought about by our Savior becomes the greatest gift, the most glorious of realities, to live forever with God and with our families” (“Attempting the Impossible,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2009, p. 34). The Savior’s blood, His atonement, will save us, but only after we have done all we can to save ourselves by keeping His commandments” (Harold B. Lee, Address at MIA Conference, 17 June 1966. . Shall Be As When God Overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah: In 2 Nephi 23:19-22 we find a prophecy of the destruction of Babylon. I was unaware that the church newsroom had doctrinal tidbits in there (thanks CV75 for pointing in that direction) and as I was browsing I came upon the entry for Grace. The House of Israel will be redeemed in the Millenial day. 2 Nephi 25:2 Nephi admits that he has avoided teaching his people many things about the life among the Jews in Jerusalem – because of the wicked lifestyle of that culture. Its walls were, for height and width, one of the wonders of the world. See quote from President Ezra Taft Benson, Institute Manual, 94. Second Nephi 25:23 continues to emphasize the necessity of obedience to the commandments of God for a person to obtain exaltation and godhood. 2 Nephi 25:23 in Literary and Rhetorical Context Daniel O. McClellan For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. He further explains the future of the Jews as well as the restoration of the gospel in the last days. After whom is the king of Israel come out? « Previous 2 Nephi 25 Next » The reason we can say that is that God Himself does not change--He isn't wishy, washy. 25:232 Nephi 25:23 to be a preposition of separation rather than a preposition of time. “After all we can do” means leading chaste, clean, pure lives, being scrupulously honest in all our dealings and treating others the way we would want to be treated (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 354. Exaltation only occurs when a person has “obedience to gospel law.”. And I agree with the same conclusion. “After all we can do” includes loving our fellowmen and praying for those who regard us as their adversary. 2 Nephi 30:1-2. For instance, twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball introduced 2 Nephi 25:23 by writing this: One passage in the Book of Mormon, written perhaps with the same intent as Paul’s statement above—to stress and induce appreciate for the gracious gift of salvation offered on condition of obedience—is particularly enlightening (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 207. 2 Nephi 25:23-26. In this paper, I offer a theological interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23 that is distinct from any other in the relevant literature. Nephi put this principle in a tremendous orbit when he said, ‘For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). Nephi . “Thus, the correct sense of ”2 Ne. Posted in Mormon Dilemmas, tagged 2 Nephi 25:23 vs. Ephesians 2:8-9, bible, Book of Mormon, false doctrines, false prophets, Jesus, mormonism, Salvation by grace or works on 02/04/2012| Leave a Comment » Salvation by What? . Keep the commandments of God or perish. 2 Nephi 25:23 in the Book of Mormon states: “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” Many Mormons say this verse doesn’t teach that salvation is based on grace and works. And a church manual states, “The phrase ‘after all we can do’ teaches that effort is required on our part to receive the fulness of the Lord’s grace and be made worthy to dwell with him” (True to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, 2004, p. 77). Spencer raises five excellent questions from the reading of 2 Nephi 25:23 that highlight the verse’s ambiguities and, consequently, its difficulty for interpretation. Annotation for 2 Ne 25:23-30 above 30 And, inasmuch as it shall be expedient, ye must keep the performances and ordinances of God until the law shall be fulfilled which was given unto Moses. Surely the Lord smiles upon one who desires to come to judgment worthily, who resolutely labors day by day to replace weakness with strength. Thus works alone cannot save us; grace is an absolute prerequisite. In pursuit of, that is, moving behind, following; in search of. At first glance this passage seems to agree with 2 Nephi 25:23, but one of the basic principles of biblical hermeneutics (the interpretation of scripture) is that scripture within the Bible (and in LDS theology and scriptures, if it is true) cannot contradict itself. In a first section, I highlight a number of ambiguities in Nephi's words that have not been sufficiently noted. Furthermore, we are invited to ‘come unto Christ, and be perfected in him.’ When we deny ourselves ‘of all ungodliness,’ then and only ‘then is his grace sufficient’ for us (Moroni 10:32)” (“Plain and Precious Truths Restored,” Ensign, October 2006, p. 53. Here is what she told me: After taking a college and graduate level grammar course, I’ll admit I had to google “preposition of separation,” but after reading up on it, I don’t think it means what he thinks it means. 20-27 2 Nephi 2:24 All Things Have Been Done in the Wisdom of Him Who Knoweth All Things. (25) 2 Nephi 25:23 – A comment. MAYBE, maybe, maybe “even after” works, but “after” by itself does not. This meaning is apparent from the fact that none of us actually does all he can do (p. 125). “Elder B.H. LDS 2 Nephi 25:23 Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Hammster, Aug 2, 2016. To understand just how unclear Nephis words are, a few interpretive questions, none of which has any obvious answer, might be asked: 1. This interpretation does not fit the English grammar of the 19th or even 21st centuries, but it also does not concur with the interpretations given by many different LDS authorities. He cites 2 Nephi 25:23 as support for his assessment, but also 1 Nephi 13:40, in which the angel who asks Nephi, “Knowest thou the condescension of God?” (1 Nephi 11:16), repudiates the notion of a shared responsibility for salvation. 2 Nephi 25:23, of course, contains the famous verbal formula, “we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” Latter-day Saints of varying theological stripes frequently treat this formulation as providing a resolution of debates regarding grace and works, although the resolution they see the text as pointing toward varies. 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